tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post5080542561794644773..comments2023-10-31T10:36:24.845-05:00Comments on K12 Reformer - Mike Reno: MEA contractual “firewall” blocks assessment dataMike Renohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02321695059501190325noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-53039423880160947872009-08-18T09:12:52.136-05:002009-08-18T09:12:52.136-05:00And posting publicly on subjects that you know hal...And posting publicly on subjects that you know half-assed is foolish (I think that's in the Bible somewhere, though I'm paraphrasing ;)).<br /><br />As you obviously have zero interest in having a debate about the issue in this thread, I'll leave you with some advice: take the plank out of your own eye first ;)<br /><br />Cheers.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-49905165947474012912009-08-16T16:33:34.840-05:002009-08-16T16:33:34.840-05:00No surprises.
But in the spirit of our common fai...No surprises.<br /><br />But in the spirit of our common faith, let me leave you with this:<br /><br />Humility is the secret of fellowship, and pride the secret of division.<br /><br />Keep the faith.Brother Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-84620740695743676372009-08-16T15:24:57.545-05:002009-08-16T15:24:57.545-05:00And I've been a Christian since 1982. My wife ...And I've been a Christian since 1982. My wife is a conservative, born-again Christian. But she doesn't spend her time blogging and taking cheap shots at my profession and she's smart enough to know she doesn't know all she needs to know about my line of work.<br /><br />Good advice for some of you to follow.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-11785548193120310142009-08-16T15:14:43.301-05:002009-08-16T15:14:43.301-05:00Of course there his personal opinions. Of course h...Of course there his personal opinions. Of course he's running this blog while using his trustee title in the blog. Again, Two things put together that I won't and will not do. <br /><br />Nowhere did I say he doesn't have a right to say those things. I pointed out how woefully counterproductive it is. <br /><br />Pretty simple. <br /><br />I figured, though, that you'd dig up reasons not to engage me in a debate on this issue. You're obviously in over your head. <br /><br />Good day.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-42360636145764721842009-08-16T14:19:36.838-05:002009-08-16T14:19:36.838-05:00Let's get a grip here, Bill...
Mike's blo...Let's get a grip here, Bill...<br /><br />Mike's blog intro clearly states "The personal observations of an elected school board member who is dedicated to education reform in Michigan."<br /><br />So I'm not sure what your beef is with the First Amendment guaranteed to each of us by our founding fathers and the men and women who have died to protect them, but it's YOU who needs to "get over yourself"<br /><br />I'll edu-gab data-based teacher performance appraisals with you here, providing you comply with the following conditions:<br /><br />1. You apologize to Mike Reno for your baseless attacks on a genuinely exemplary school board trustee, and<br /><br />2. You cease using this blog for attacks on people's religious and political affiliations.<br /><br />So what do say Bill?<br /><br />Are you teacher enough to clean up the messes you've made here?Brother Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-51737139647187285062009-08-16T13:57:26.078-05:002009-08-16T13:57:26.078-05:00Sorry Bill, but I don't see the basis for your...Sorry Bill, but I don't see the basis for your charge that Bro Ed accused you of anything.He called you on your ugly slur against some guy's religious beliefs.<br /><br />Bigotry is bigotry and just because you think it's OK to trash those who seek moral guidance through Christ's teachings, doesn't make it right...no matter how fashionable.Bigotry is unbecoming of any rational human being, much less a teacher.Sister Check Writernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-90430404873062157782009-08-16T12:04:45.715-05:002009-08-16T12:04:45.715-05:00Common assessments (exit exams) are common in high...Common assessments (exit exams) are common in higher ed (at least in my experience having taught at a 4-year school and now a community college). We, for example, just completed a humanities assessment that covered courses ranging from cultural anthropology to American Literature. Now: that is very challenging to do in this particular area--nonetheless faculty, staff, and administrators work together (as equals) to continually revise and improve the assessment process. <br /><br />It's probably much more cut-and-dry in an area like math (and in particular, an exclusive, narrow sub-set of that broad category).<br /><br />But here are some challenges that need to be critically examined by all stakeholders in such testing:<br /><br />--What do the test results "prove"? For example, say six courses in the same general area do the same exit test and there are a couple of those classes whose composite score is in the B range, one in the A range, and one in the C range, and two in the D/lower range. <br /><br />What you have in the text results is not an answer--but the first step in a long journey. Why? Student population of each course. Unless students were put into those courses with equal numbers of the same type of student (background, gpas, etc.) there is no conclusive way to use the surface data to prove or disprove proper instruction is going on. In other words, the class with the A average very well might have been a "super" class where the lotto balls of population populated that course with above-average students who were predispositioned to do well. Just the opposite might apply to the lower-end course. <br /><br />With random population of a course and "open enrollment," the surface data cannot be used to pass judgment on the teacher or her methods without further investigation that requires earnest work and effort.<br /><br />This, of course, doesn't mean we shouldn't have outcome-based work or tests. But standardized exams are pedagogically complex to pull off with any sort accuracy and integrity in the results. Lots of detailed research has pointed this out. <br /><br />My main gripe is that this very worthy topic of debate has been simplified and politicized for cheap surface soundbites and the bashing of teacher unions. I fail to see how that's "putting kids first," either.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-56497011343587026692009-08-16T11:34:31.072-05:002009-08-16T11:34:31.072-05:00And I'm happy to discuss the issue presented i...And I'm happy to discuss the issue presented in this thread. Thing is, I doubt any of you have any real interest, as I'm a union member (ugh) and a teacher and believe in both. <br /><br />But I've laid my credentials out there and am willing to productively discuss this. <br /><br />Ed and any others, let's go. Let's discuss the issue.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-30641706449150777652009-08-16T11:26:07.550-05:002009-08-16T11:26:07.550-05:00Really? I was just accused by "Brother Ed&quo...Really? I was just accused by "Brother Ed" (whatever that handle means) of indoctrinating my students. Again: I'm not running a pubic blog as a teacher or as a trustee and throwing out my political views for all the world to see--and trashing large segments of the school demographic in doing so. <br /><br />Get over yourself already. Today, please.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-56394307181445248652009-08-16T09:16:36.737-05:002009-08-16T09:16:36.737-05:00Bing!Bing!Brother Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-5620447585117065412009-08-16T09:15:40.191-05:002009-08-16T09:15:40.191-05:00Missing the point as usual, Bill.
Your pretentiou...Missing the point as usual, Bill.<br /><br />Your pretentious vitriol against an exemplary school board trustee whose contributions to our schools and community you clearly know NOTHING about are an embarrassment. <br /><br />Maybe you should revisit that hypocrisy & bigotry issue -- on your own time of course – rather than mucking up the space Mr. Reno has so graciously provided here for thoughtful discourse.Sister Check Writernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-10443833496743379942009-08-16T00:20:00.502-05:002009-08-16T00:20:00.502-05:00No, I don't offer up these lessons in my class...No, I don't offer up these lessons in my classroom. Know why? I don't offer my political and religious views to students on my professional time or while wearing my teacher hat--and I don't blog about them while wearing those hats, either. <br /><br />I'm on my own time here. Last I checked it wasn't me making a blog and using my title as a school board member or a teacher to espouse my views on politics and rant against entire segments of the population. <br /><br />Your friends are doing that. And Mike is only one of many on the Right doing that.<br /><br />If you want to get back to the conversation started, go re-read my first post and let's go for it. I've sat on our school's assessment teams, and I'd love to hear about your experiences and expertise in the classroom. <br /><br />And I say that sincerely.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-39065154405062182532009-08-16T00:00:11.433-05:002009-08-16T00:00:11.433-05:00Oh my…
What a nasty, little stain you've left...Oh my…<br /><br />What a nasty, little stain you've left here, Bill.<br /><br />A liberal helping of hypocrisy topped off with some religious bigotry just for the hell of it.<br /><br />Do you offer up these lessons in your classroom?<br /><br />How sad.Brother Ednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-10151732681858640912009-08-14T13:43:56.710-05:002009-08-14T13:43:56.710-05:00i've seen data skewers in action. first hand. ...i've seen data skewers in action. first hand. if there's a policy administration wants to pursue, they'll interpret the data to justify that pursuit. in relation to that, i've seen several groups have several different interpretations of the SAME data. <br /><br />make the union, teachers, whomever to be the boogeymen all you want. guess what? they're not going away. mike's blog here will do nothing for that. instead, we should all be looking for ways to work together--instead of scoring cheap political points. <br /><br />what's going at town hall meetings right now is the classic example of everything that is wrong with the republican party. and that mindset seems to trickle down to even school board members. <br /><br />mind numbing. <br /><br />then you have others who want to use the mea and teachers as a convenient stepping stone to higher political aspirations (cough, kyle olson). that's scummy any way you slice it. <br /><br /><br />...although now he's on to acorn so it looks like he's soaked the teacher thing for the political capital he could and has moved on. perhaps someday in the future he'll have a real job, one where he can shower at night and come clean and make jesus proud of him.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-36674173128127561362009-08-14T13:32:46.866-05:002009-08-14T13:32:46.866-05:00Meh, a lot of people run for school boards with ax...Meh, a lot of people run for school boards with axes to grind. Mike seems to be no different. Fortunately there are those of us who really do understand what goes on in a classroom getting involved to counter such nonsense.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-26811812399009278612009-08-14T10:54:27.127-05:002009-08-14T10:54:27.127-05:00C’mon Bill (your name suits you):
The issue here ...C’mon Bill (your name suits you):<br /><br />The issue here isn’t teacher opposition to, or familiarity with, “using data” and you know it.<br /><br />The focus of the article Mr. Reno has thoughtfully posted here is the teacher unions’ disappointing pushback against data-driven teacher accountability. <br /><br />This is the stuff that makes principled civilians crazy, Bill. <br /><br />Why should teachers be exempt from metric analyses of their effectiveness in public service? The rest of the planet survives and thrives with such scrutiny, yet the public should accept the union’s reconstituted swill that “student test-score data should be used primarily for informative and instructional purposes"?<br /><br />Even Messrs Obama & Duncan won’t sell that one…not until those job approval numbers dip a bit lower, anyway.<br /><br />As for your “repeated rhetorical analysis” of Mr. Reno’s posts and your unfounded concerns that he may not “understand” local teachers, please allow me to ease your angst. <br /><br />The best reassurance and show of support ANY teacher could ask for is a school board member who works tirelessly – minus the publicly-funded benefits of generous salary, bennies, longevity bonus & defined pension -for the long-term solvency and excellence of the publicly-owned system which employs us. <br /><br />That school board member in these parts is Mike Reno.<br /><br />We like Mike!Sister Check Writernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-68188916701886802862009-08-14T09:57:00.368-05:002009-08-14T09:57:00.368-05:00Your turn, Brother Ed.
Go.Your turn, Brother Ed. <br /><br />Go.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-43416154658260636992009-08-13T21:05:52.159-05:002009-08-13T21:05:52.159-05:00Most teachers I know aren't opposed to using d...Most teachers I know aren't opposed to using data. In fact, many of us use it--and have it used to evaluate us--until it's coming out our ears. <br /><br />The rub (usually) is that teachers feel threatened because teachers are left out of the process--and furthermore righty blogs tend to fuel that suspicion with repeated teacher-whipping posts. <br /><br />Any sort of data collection that has its rubric construction and implementation done by persons outside the classroom (or those who spend 3 hours a month at a board meeting and occasionally blog and post links) void of teacher input is doomed to suspicion and failure. <br /><br />You don't do much in your blogging to reassure teachers you understand them, Mike, or truly want any teacher buy-in concerning evaluation and data collecting. Sorry, that is fact based on repeated rhetorical analysis of your blog entries. Your political stripes are readily apparent; your contempt is readily apparent. <br /><br />That is an interesting caption in your district's master agreement. Truth is, if I were a union member in your district and had board members like you posting what you post, I'd damn-well sure want some protections in there for me so that you couldn't run off half-cocked on some surface data.<br /><br />I don't know that your district's language in the norm or not. It's been my experience that teachers have and do, and are subjected to, lots of data analysis. <br /><br />And many of us aren't opposed--if we're treated like experts and equal partners in the process. After all, we are the ones spending all the time in the classroom and have the advanced degrees in teaching. Right?Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-32685162687701137332009-08-07T08:23:29.455-05:002009-08-07T08:23:29.455-05:00Figures it is in Section 8. :)
Contract is up an...Figures it is in Section 8. :)<br /><br />Contract is up any YOU are in a position to make a difference.<br /><br />Let's do it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4526659937118816707.post-69123250583198316682009-08-06T07:31:25.673-05:002009-08-06T07:31:25.673-05:00What? No one from the party faithful which typical...What? No one from the party faithful which typically trolls here to denounce the NEA's Acolyte-in-Chief for his apparent heresy?<br />Must be August.Brother Ednoreply@blogger.com